Afropop Worldwide's Alex Wolfe interviewed Colombian Accordion Maestro Lisandro Meza in May of this year for our program "Maestros of Cumbia." He spoke to us about his recent Angolan tour, the African roots of his music, and the current state of Cumbia.

AW: You toured Angola recently. What was the reaction of the African Public to your music?

LISANDRO MEZA: When I got to the airport they gave me a list of the songs they wanted me to sing in the concerts. Many of the songs were from my repertory and I had recorded them but didn't sing them often in concert. They had the records so I said okay and we rehearsed those songs. Since most of the audience didn't understand the Spanish words it was alright if I forget some of the lyrics, so I didn't mind. But it was a beautiful experience, a Latin American group going to Africa, a cumbia group.

AW: We know that Afro-Cuban music had a big impact on Africa. Did cumbia also become popular?

LM: Yes, cumbia is also popular there, of course. Why? Because cumbia has a lot of African drumming in it. Cumbia is danced throughout the world because it combines the lament of the Indian and the drums of the Negro. It's popular with the African and the Indian cultures.

AW- Have you toured other African countries?

LM- No, only Angola. I've toured in Europe, and throughout South America and Central America.

AP- I understand you recorded some tracks in Angola?

LM- We recorded some tracks with two African guitarists. One was what we call a "champeta" in Colombia.

AW- What was your impression of the Angolan musicians?

LM- They were fantastic. What musicality. The African musicians were very good.

AW- Did you have any other musical encounters with Africans?

LM- Other groups, yeah. We went to a jail to do a show. No, it was a hospital. Anyway, a group of local drummers did an homage to us there. It was marvelous. Each drum has it's own beat and sound and that creates a great contrast. We really admired what they did.

AW- Many of the slaves that were brought to Colombia were from that part of Africa.

LM- Yes, from that part. The Portuguese sold the slaves to the French, who sold them to the Spanish, who were the ones who brought them to Cartagena and the Palenques in that area. That's how the Negro and his drum got to Colombia and inspired us with his drum.

AW- Is it true that the way of dancing Cumbia evolved from the slaves dancing in their shackles?

LM- Yes, in the epoch of slavery the slaves were shackled and chained to an iron ball at their feet. Around the cooking fires at night the drumming started and even those slaves who were shackled danced around the iron ball, lifting their heels. That's how the cumbia dance evolved, with heels raised and arms in the air…and with a package of candles that are held high…

AW- The "espermas"?

LM- Yes, the "espermas". So, that's how the dance evolved. Later it became a kind of rite when cumbia arrived at the parties of the freed people. A form of courting the woman was incorporated into the dance, a whole number of things were added. Just like dancing the porro, which is derived from cumbia but a little faster. After the porro comes the fandango, which is a little faster still, and then the mapalé, which is even faster. In the interior of the country we have the bambuco, the buyerengue, the guabina, and the torbellino. On the Pacific side we have the chirimia, el curulao, el peregoyo, and on the atlantic coast we also have the gaita and the son. In Huila we have the Zaofanero. Colombia has many rhythms in its folklore, many variations, not only cumbia.

AW- How did you enter into music?

LM- I always liked music. I had uncles who were drummers. They also played the gaita flutes. In that era there weren't the instruments we have today. My grandmother sang folk songs. My father was a poet who improvised and sang his verses (décima). We had a farm in the department of Magdalena and one of my fathers workers, named Pedro Zocará, had an accordion. While he worked in the fields I, like a good Colombian kid, picked the lock of his accordion case and practiced on his accordion. Before he came back from the fields I would put it away, lock the case, and put it back exactly the way it had been so he wouldn't know. Later, a rumor started that this Pedro Zocará had a pact with the devil because the accordion was playing by itself. Nobody knew I was taking out the accordion, and it sounded pretty good because Iwas a fast learner.

One night my father gave a party for his workers on Christmas Eve and Pedro Zocará was playing his accordion. By about three in the morning the drinks caught up to him and he put away the accordion. I was watching this and snuck away into a room with the accordion and started to play. People asked, "Who's that playing?", and finally my dad came in and startled me. I was scared because I thought he was going to punish me but instead he embraced me and…it was crazy. So the next day they went to the town called Plato de Magadalena and bought me an accordion as a present. It was my happiness. After about nine months I was pretty good and eight months after that I recorded my first album. I was only fifteen.

I continued recording and recorded with the Vallenatos de Magdalena. Then I made my first band and in 1960 had my first hit. Later I recorded with the Corraleros de Majagual, which included Calixto Ochoa, Eliseo Herrera, Cesar Castro, Quico Cervantes, Julio Eraso, Tony Zúniga. Fruko y sus Tesos also started with them, and Alfredo Gutierrez, Nacho Paredes, and many others.. The Corraleros de Majagual became one of the great groups of Latin America.

AP- Did you play with Alejo Duran?

LM- I was the guacharaquero (guiro or gourd player) in Alejo Duran's group. Idropped out of school. When you're that age and you are enchanted by music you don't realize what you'll miss later without an education. But the University of Life has taught me many marvelous things.

AW- What are the African instruments used in Cumbia?

LM- The drums. The guiro is from the Caribbean. There is the big drum (Tambor), and then there is a smaller one named "The caller" (Llamador) that keeps the boom-chick-boom-chick-boom beat. Then there is the "Tambor Alegre" (the "Happy Drum"), which is also big, and that dialogues marvelously within the harmonies of cumbia. Those are the instruments that come from Africa.

AW- The flute, or the clarinet, replaced what had originally been the Indigenous Flauta de Millo.

LM- Yes, the Flauta de Millo. That is the gaita flute. The maraca comes from the Totumo tree and gives the "shshsh shshsh" sound--the brightness. Then there's the gaita macho and the gaita hembra (male and female gaita flutes). The gaita hembra carries the melody and the gaita macho does the harmony. The one who plays the gaita macho also plays the maraca and the other musician has both hands occupied playing the melody. One drum beats boom-chick-boom-chick, and the other drum responds. It has a beautiful magic to it.

AW- I went to visit great accordion player Andres Landero about seven years ago in his hometown of San Jacinto.

LM- Andres died not too long ago. The Gaiteros de san Jacinto are of course also from there. There is a mountain called Mount Faroto, and that's where cumbia was born. That's where the first gaita instruments were made. The Faroto Indians made the first gaita flutes.

AW- What is the difference between Vallenato and Cumbia?

LM- Vallenato is not a rhythm. Rafael Escalona, Colombian President Alfonso Lopez, and García Marquez put together a Festival of Accordionists in Aracataca. The first winner was Alejandro Durán. Afterwards, Escalona moved the festival to Valledupar. When it was in Aracataca the music wasn't called "vallenato". It was just a festival of accordionists. But in Valledupar it was called the Festival of Vallenato, taking on part of the name of the town. After that all accordion music was referred to as "vallenato". I am from the Savannah, as are many other accordionists, like Alfredo Gutierrez. We were discriminated against. They said we weren't from the right region to win the vallenato festival because our music was fram the Savannah. The press and television began to use the term "vallenato" music, and it has remained that way. It used to be that a paseo, a merengue, and a son were all part of the coastal folklore and culture. Furthermore, "vallenato" is not really what you should call music from Valledupar. It should be called Valduparian. Vallenato means from "Ballena" (whale). It never was a rhythm, it was just that they put the festival there and then the power of the press created this promotional term "Vallenato", and so it has remained.

When I competed there they told me I couldn't win (because I was from the Savannah), but everyone was crazy about my song, and they protested in the streets for four days. They love me there in Valledupar. I was the king without a crown.

I still go to the festival, but not to compete because I'm past that stage. It's great, though. All the young people with their excitement and ambitions.

AW- What do you call the tongue-twister lyrics you create in some of your songs, like Baracunatana?

LM- Oh, I invent words. Sometimes people try to find them in the dictionary and can't. Like "saponepo". The "sapo" (toad) has big bulging eyes and so it has become a slang word for informer, because they have eyes that are too big. In my song I make a new word "saponepo", meaning a cop.

AW- What brand of Accordion do you play?

LM- I have a Meister. This brand came before the Hohners, which is also German, but in the time of the war Meister went out of business and Hohner triumphed. Now Hohner has been bought by a Chinese outfit.

AW- Is it known how the accordion arrived in Colombia?

LM-Yes, the first accordion arrived in Colombia via Coveñas, brought by a man named Pisarro, Joaquín Pisarro. He came from Germany and arrived at the ports carrying grappa, wire, hammers, hachets, and machetes, and he traded thesae things for tabacco as he traveled. Once he brought an accordion and he sold it to the Villa Milian Oveja family for two bales of tobacco. The three brothers in the family all learned to play on that accordion.

Later they sold the accordion to Francisco El Hombre, whose real name was Francisco Moscote. They gave him the name "Francisco El Hombre" because he lived in Machovallo, and most of the men from that region were away working in the banana plantations when a plague came and killed many of the children. But there were no men to bury the children. Francisco said, "I am the man who will bury the children", so they called him "Francisco El Hombre" (Francisco the Man). The legend is that he was the first great accordionist.

AW- How did Cumbia have such a big impact on Mexico?

LM- Andres Landero with his hit Pava Congona (The Wild Turkey) was the first Colombian to have a success in Mexico. Later my song Cumbia de Amor was a hit there. My song Lejania (sings) and other songs that weren't cumbias were also big. Since I sang them the Mexicans assumed they were cumbias.

AW- Who are the Sonideros in Mexico?

LM- In Colombia we are very grateful to them because they are the ones who deseminate our music. We give them shout outs in the songs and I have lots of good friends who are Sonideros.*

AW- Do they manipulate the music?

LM- Yes. Sometimes they do things to make the voice sound lower. I don't know how they do it but…they make the voice lower. It's pretty ingenious. They change the song to make it more to the taste of the crowd. Sometimes they will slow it down if it's too fast. The Mexicans dance, but not too fast. They like to dance slow. The Sonideros set the music to the tempo they prefer.

AW- As a musician and entertainer, what do you do in the face of such violence in your country?

LM- I have been an artist for forty-five years, four and a half decades, in a wartorn country. I used to think it was a war about ideals and resentments related to these ideals. But it has become a fratricidal war. I don't know what will happen. We are very sad. God help us.

It's hard to be an artist, a composer, in these conditions because your muse becomes atrophied. How can you write a song filled with happiness, or even fall in love with life, with a woman, with the beauty of nature, when you have to run and hide from the war? Only when we learn to respect God and to respect our fellow man is there some hope.

All of Latin America is badly governed. There is too much corruption. I think the problems of war come from that too because there are bad schools, there are no hospitals for many people, there is no gas, there is nothing. …And we started off so nicely (laughs).

AW- What's your new album called?

LM- My new production is called "Made In Colombia".

*Sonideros are the Sound System DJ's that have become a huge fad in neighborhoods and dancehalls across Mexico. These DJ's put all kinds of bizarre effects and equalization on the tracks they spin, and cumbia is the main course.

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