Afropop Worldwide

1:14 [Call starts] AK: Hello SB: Hi, Ata? Yes? This is Sam from Afropop Worldwide. Sorry, I beg your pardon? This is Sam from Afropop Worldwide, Brian set up an interview? Oh okay okay okay okay, how you doing? I'm doing well, how are you doing? I'm fine thank you. It still works to talk now, for you? Yeah, Brian called me I think yesterday or two days ago, he called and he told me that some people would be calling me so call away. Okay fantastic. [Laughs] So where you calling from?2:02 Sorry, what? Where are you calling from? New York. Brooklyn. New York, okay okay okay okay. So this is Ata Kak? What? You know you're talking to Ata Kak. Yeah, I know! [laughs] Yeah, okay, go ahead Sam. Okay. So we're radio show but we have a website and we put up interviews with people there, so this is for that. Okay, yeah, I"m ready for it! Okay, so I guess let's start from the beginning, right? That's a good place to start.2:47 Sure, sure. How did you first start playing music? Ummm, I stared ... it all started when I was in Ghana, this was way back in the '70s - can you hear me well? I can hear you fine.3:03 Sorry but there's background noise, you can tell. So it started when I was in [??] school. We had a school. And I thought that was [??] but I was interested. I was interested, I didn't enjoy. Until I left Ghana for Germany, this was way back in 1985. And while I was in Germany, I was at the post office and I met a guy - in those days we didn't have cell phones, if you can remember, and so we had to communicate by letter. So I went to the post office and while I was there met a German guy, a white guy.3:40 He met me and and asked me if I knew anything about music. And actually I had to lie to him, I don't know why I did, I didn't know anything about music but I told him I could play the drums. And he was so excited about it. And after a week, I went there and I did the best that I could, even though I had not played the professional drums before.4:01 But I could do it! And then, after about a month or so, I was playing the drums and we didn't have a lead vocalist so I played as the lead vocalist as well. And then I started writing songs, it was in English, and it was basically reggae music. Then after three years I left for Canada and I joined a highlife group - can you hear me? Yeah, I can hear you. I joined a highlife group4:29in Canada with some Ghanaians. But after a while I didn't like the kind of music they were playing because I wanted to do my own thing. But when I tried it with them, they didn't understand me so I had an idea of setting up my own recording studio but then this wasn't that easy to do. So started buying some musical instruments and some equipments 4:59 like the rhythm machine and I bought a mixer [??] So I set up my own recording studio in my apartment in Canada. And then I also put in keyboard but I didn't get anybody to play it for me and after buying all the musical instruments I was short of money. I didn't have enough money to hire people to play it for me. And besides that I thought I could do it better than any Ghanaian 5:35 because [??] to highlife music. So I tried the best that I could, even though I didn't know what I was playing because I don't know anything like C, you know, on a keyboard, I didn't know C sharp, flat, blah blah blah, okay, I don't know. But I did it anyway. Because I was so eager to do it. I wanted to do it.5:59 I was so frustrated, but I knew I could do it. And I did it. With Obaa Sima, and the rest. So that's the story behind it. 6:10 So, let's go back, when you first started writing songs, that was when you were in Germany? 6:21 No, I started playing music in Germany for three years and then I left Germany for Canada but the recording studio I started up in Canada. 6:31 But I guess I'm wondering, so you were playing reggae in Germany and Highlife in Canada. Yes. But the music you that you made on this record, it's really, really different. So what made you want to try to make this kind of music, this like of dance music. 6:53 Back in Ghana it was basically highlife and in Germany, like I said, it was the reggae. But I fused or merged [???] musical .. you know. So if you listen to the songs very well, you realise that I mixed up highlife with reggae then with dancing music and other stuff. And funk as well. So it's everything together, you know, a piece from here, a piece from there, I join it together7:29 and I had that. But what about, where does that kind of dance beat come from? The dance beat? Yeah. The dance beat, well, back in the 90s we had dance music. And at that time it was hip. So I said, okay, that's what I will do. So because it was a trend at that time, I chose that. So you were trying to mix all these kind of musics you grew up with with the style that was trendy at the time and bring them all together? 8:05 Yes. So was the goal of the record to like get it out there and get it on the radio and sell records? [he couldn't hear] 8:27 So I said, if you were doing that, you were aiming to get it on the radio, or to get it really out there. To get it on the radio. Or you know, you were trying to make this be a popular record. Yes. Yes. So were you trying to aim for like the Canadian music or like in Ghana? 9:01 Um, I would say the Canadian music really Ghanaians don't play that kind of music. You know, Ghana is basically highlife. Right. So it cannot be Ghanaian music, because after a point [??] it was released in 94 it flopped, honestly, it flopped in Ghana because I think it was something new to them. So it can never be Ghanaian music. No. 9:30 So what about , but there's some music that's a little bit like, like Burger Highlife that was being made in Germany is a little bit like this. Yeahhhh, it is like I say in Germany, you know, Germans, they play either punk or rock. Like I told you earlier I was in the reggae group. So, I heard the world and I see the world. It can't be a german's punk group like rrrr, no. If I heard the world. 10:07 Oh no, I was saying like, the highlife that was being made in Germany that had all the synthesizers in it like, what's his name, Georges Darko? Oh you mean a burger highlife? Yeah, there's Ghanaians who were in Germany back then were playing burger highlife which is quite different from what I did. So it cannot be burger highlife, it's quite different. 10:34 So when you were writing the songs, can you just tell me a little bit about how you wrote the songs? Well, first I wanted to do it in English. Because I was in Canada, you know, I wanted to do it in English. But I started when I rapping, I wasn't rapping as good as the rappers who are doing this. I was influenced by a rapper by the name of ... oh come on, I know this guy's name! ... I think he is known as the father of rap ... uhhh Grandmaster Flash! Thank you very much. I was influenced by Grandmaster Flash because I remember I was watching TV a long time ago and Grandmaster Flash was singing New York New York - I hope you know this song. I love this song - I said I have to do this. So I wanted to do it in English at first but because after a little doing it I wasn't impressed about what I did. So I said, well, why don't I try it my natural, my language I grew up with. 11:42 And that's how I did it. So what are the songs about? - Sorry, I didn't mean to cut you off, please continue. Yeah, so basically it was [???] in our language, which is Twi, in Ghana. 12:00 So I mean, had you, you rap really well. When did you first start rapping? Way back in 1984. I started when I though I could. Because after writing a song I said there must be rap in it. So I did it. Wait so you started rapping when you wrote which song. 12:30 When I was writing songs, I had the mind to rap in it, and I had never done it before but I said that I could. So I wrote it and I did it. So you started rapping for these songs? I started rapping because I had heard some people rap. Like I told you, Grandmaster Flash was a rapper. He's a rapper. Yeah, of course. And I heard him on the air.13:02 He really spoke out to me [call lost] 13:52 Hello. Hi. Sorry. I lost the call. 14:03 How about the beats of the songs, how did you write them? I tried a lot of things. At first it was funk. And then I started with dance music. So while I was singing, because I had my own recording studio and I had all the [??] myself I wasn't in a rush. So it was kind of an experiment.14:32 [??] I will first try with funk and if it doesn't work I'll change it to something else. And what worked well for me was the dance music that you know, I did. So I would do all the trial and error, trial and error, and finally that's what I ended up with. 14:53 So how long did it take you to record. It depends, upon the song and it depends upon the input. With Obaa Sima which was the first one that I recorded. With Obaa Sima, it was a little bit longer. Because I wasn't used to the recording machines, I wasn't used to that. It took me about 3 or 4 months to record that. But with the rest, because I had become used to it, it was easier. 15:26 So were you, was this just what you were doing at home? What were you doing for a job during this period? Back then I didn't have the papers so it was difficult for me. I did like a little bit here and there, a little bit here and there, so you know, any particular job that I was working o [???] [lauging] because I didn't have a good job, a stable job. And I didn't have a stable income either. 16:05 So tell me - It was [$50 dollars] but I had to survive anyway. So tell me about that first song Obaa Sima. Can you just tell me what it's about? Obaa Sima ... it means .. I'm married. And when I was doing it I was married and I'm still married to the same woman today. And so it something I was trying to impress my wife with. Obaa Sima is about about my wife. And if you listen to the lyrics - I know you don't understand the lyrics - I'm telling about what an ideal woman is. And when I was recording it my wife was there because it was recorded in my apartment.17:00 And some guys were because at that time she was pregnant and they were not [????] it was not that easy, it was difficult, especially when the friends [????] 17:23 call dropped 17:33 [call resumed] 17:52 So your wife just went along with it? Like you're in your apartment, you've bought all this equipment? Yeah, she tolerated everything because she knew that something good might come out of it.[laughs] so she tolerated everything. Actually she never complained to me. If she didn't like it, at least she didn't make it known to me. So in my mind, she was okay with it. 18:26 She hasn't said anything bad about this. So did you have any help in the recording or the building of the studio? 18:35 No. There was only one guy who helped to sing. And I didn't like his voice so after I deleted it. [laughs] You have some backing vocals though, right? Yeah, it was a young girl. By the name of [???]. She was really 18:58 [?clever], so I did the backing with her. So were you still playing with your group while you were doing all this recording or you stopped? I stopped. How come? Because I was so busy with mine. 19:20 [call dropped] 19:46 [call resumed] So how long did the whole process take you? It might have taken me about maybe 8 months to maybe 10 months. Less than a year. So did you always know that there were gonna be this many songs or were there some songs that didn't make it or, how did you know the album was done? How did I know when the album was done? Yeah. I made up my mind that I was making an album because I had written all the songs already. I knew some by heart and I had written it down as well so I knew the number of songs I was making 20:46 and I knew how I wanted it so that wasn't a problem at all. I'm a little bit confused about that. So you said that you wrote all the songs before you recorded them but you also said that you wrote the raps for the songs. So when you first wrote the songs, what did they sound like? 21:14 I first write the songs, they are lyrics. And then after the lyrics, I figure out how I put the rap in. And then I write the rap. And then I put it all on the computer and see how it works. So I had everything figured out. Even before I recorded it. Ohhh. I wrote everything on paper before I recorded it. You wrote everything on paper, and all out? I wrote everything on paper because that's how I write my songs. I write it on paper and then I compose it. And then the composition is like edited. You take this out, and put this in, whatever. As long as you don't lose the meaning of the song, the message you want to convey. And then when it's all done, I arrange them, 22:17 The [??] then the chorus, then the main bridge, and everything, the rap as well. That's how I do it. And everything is paper. Before I record it. Whoa. And so how did you translate all the writing on paper to the computer? 22:39 I used a software, a music software. In those days, it was called Notator. So I had a computer. At first, there was something called sync, there's a button there, I press it and it gives me the tempo which goes like, for example "ka ka ka" one two three four, one two three four, and then because I'm a programmer, I was very good at that.23:16 And now first record the kick drum, then the snare drum, then other drums. So I recorded drums section first. All this while with the song in my head. And with the notator software it's divided into four, like one two three four. Then there's a cut. one two three four. So you can join them, join the pieces, so it's like cut and paste, cut and paste. So you do it, it takes a lot of time to do it but you know, when you have this kind of ambition it's easier. So I first record the drum section, and after the drum section I come with the bass line. And while I was programming the bass line I'd be singing the song in my head. To see if it fits. And then when it's recorded and it's playing automatically 24:11 I will be singing along to see if it fits and if it does then I'll move on to something else. So gradually from one instrument to the other, I recorded everything. And then when it's all done, you are able to elongate it, make it longer, for example, the introduction. One piece lasts for about a second, you add another second to it, add another second to it, then you have three seconds and it's on and on. And it's like that, like you are building up building blocks. That's what it used to be.24:45 I don't know about the software these guys are using these days, cause I've never tried that before but with a notator, that's how it used to be. In 93, 92. 24:59 So dd you then, once you had the drum track, did you lay those down on tape and then record the new stuff on top of it? Yeah. Yeah, I send them to25:13 [my friend and his instrument???] because with a , how you call it, a mixer. A mixing board has many tracks and then the regions, they are all assigned a track. For example, I send the kick drum, or the snare drum, to track one. And then I assign the kick drum to track two, or assign the bass guitar, an then I assign the keyboard or the synthesizer, I assign to track three, and I assign the other instruments to other tracks and that, I mix them up and I try to make it sound the way I want it. Whoa. So of the songs on the album, is there any one that's like particularly special to you, that you really like the message of? Sorry? 26:12 So of the songs on the album, is there any one that is particularly special to you, that you really love the message of? [laughs] Well as a matter of fact I love ALL of them but because Obaa Sima was the first one I recorded and was my first recording experience, because of that, if I had to choose one song that would be Obaa Sima because I had to spend much more time on that than the rest and besides because I was new, because it was a new experience to me.27:03 So after Obaa Sima, I had already known what I needed to know, so it wasn't anything special to me. So I would say Obaa Sima is special to me because it's my maiden song, or maiden recording. 27:19 So that must been a really special moment when you finished the song and then you go "this actually works, this is all gonna work." [laughs] I knew it was gonna work. Because you see, you have hope in the sense that you do as a human being. Otherwise you wouldn't try at all. If you knew it's not going to work, why attempt? And I knew it was gonna work, because before I bought the Notator software I had questions about it and I asked somebody to explain to me, so I knew it was going to work.27:55 I knew it was going to work. I was very much optimistic about that. So after you were done with it, what did you do then? After I had recorded everything? Yes. After I recorded all the songs, I played it over and over again. I played it friends to know their reaction to it, so I was 28:23 very much impressed with myself. And after that I was short of money because I had spent all my money.28:33 [??][??]If I had the money. Because I was using used instruments .... I could have paid for a better recording studio to master the tracks but I didn't have that money. That was my only regret. Yeah Besides that, I was okay with it.29:03 So then what was your plan? You've got this album, it's all done, people like it. What did you try to do next? 29:13 Then, I couldn't sell it in Canada. The reason is I didn't know how to sell it. Because immediately I knew there was a way.[??] I felt as if I had done it. I didn't know how to market it cause first, it wasn't in English. [??] It was a language that I felt connected. [??] So I sent it to my kin brother back in Ghana while I was in Canada. ?? 29:51 Sorry, I couldn't hear that last part, could you repeat that? You sent it to your brother in Ghana and what? And then I told it to release it here, and try to sell as much as he could. But he couldn't do it. For some reason, they told me people were not interested in the sound. And that is, I don't know, I felt very sad about it, very sorry. After all the hard work that I saw. It crashed, it didn't work. People didn't like it. 30:26 They played in their [?] stations and people just didn't like it. So he sent it to radio stations... So I forget about it. Until Brian came into my life, thank God! [laughs] Until Brian called me and Ooooh my God. That was a resurrection. And that is why I'm talking to you right now. 30:55 So wait, so he tried to send it to radio stations and stuff in Ghana but it was too, they didn't like it. Yeah, they didn't like it for ... why? I can't tell. I don't know. So you did all this hard work - did you keep making music after that or did it kind of break your heart a little bit? No, I told myself 31:14 [??]. So I told myself I was never gonna do anything in my language anymore but I told myself I was going to do it in English. But then I didn't have money. Cause if I had had some money for this, I would have done it in English. Because I was very much tempted to do it in English. Okay. But I didn't have the money to do it. 31:38 And then, just one thing happened and another thing happened and ... That was the end of it. So tell me about when Brian called you. What was it like, what was the conversation? 31:52 I was in Ghana. I had come from Canada, I was in Ghana and I had a call from Brian. When he talked to me for the first time, he was so excited and he had finally managed to get my phone number and he told me that he had been looking for me for about 6, 8 years. And I said, for what?! What have I done? And he said, no it's about my music. He came to Ghana some time ago in city called32:18 [?] in the center of Ghana. He found my cassette. He bought it. And he liked the sounds. He came back to America and he started playing it and he up his mind to do something about it. But before he could do it, he had to get in touch with me.32:34 And he had put it on the net. And there were some Germans and other people who were also into the music and my son was on Youtube and other places then, which I didn't know. I didn't know. It was Brian who told me this. Because I thought because it flopped in Ghana, people didn't like it. That was the end. I didn't know that people somehow had managed to buy on a cassette and were making money out of that for themselves, without my knowledge. Anyway, so then he told me that while he was still looking for me33:12 he had to come to Canada and ask my friends that were there, and so they told him that I had left the country for Ghana and 33:20 [??] my son who was still in Canada when I was doing the recording he was newly born, he was about maybe 8 months old while I was doing the recordings way back in 1992. So my son was also on the net. And they met. And my son said, the guy you're looking for is my father. And that was [laughs]. My son said "the guy you're looking for is my father and I'm Jeffry Ata Ouso [?]33:53 that's my father's name. His real name is Ata Ouso. But his pen name is Ata Kak. And so this is his phone number. Call him and you can meet him. So he called me and told me about the story and his willingness to re-market or re-release the songs and I was impressed about that. 34:16 So what did you think? What was your reaction when you found out that all these people, all over the world, had been listening to your music for years? The first time Brian told me that I'm on net, that's 34:30 [??] me on the net? for what??! And then he said, You ARE on the net. You songs are all over the world. In China, in Japan, in London, in France, in New Zealand. I didn't believe it. I didn't believe it at all. Because how could this be possible? The songs that Ghanaians didn't like, the songs that I had shelved because I thought nobody wanted it, nobody needed it. Anyway, so he told me about that, and I went on the net myself and I believed it. And I said, wow, this could be big.35:14 [laughs] Yeah so I told my wife that I was so excited about it. And I'm still excited about the whole thing. Yep. [laughs] 35:33 So why do you think that it touch such a chord with so many people? I believe that it's because of the rhythm. It's quite different from other rhythms, like I told you it's a fusion of many rhythms. Besides that, the tempo and my vocal dynamics. For example basically you hear rappers rapping in no tone. But I was rapping in a high tone [static] on Obaa Sima36:25 it's very high and it's fast [call dropped]36:34 36:55 [Call resumed] Sorry about that. Oh that's okay. Anyway, like I was saying, with Obaa Sima I think it's also because of the I chose to rap it. It was fast and people are interested in this because all over the world when you talk about rap, it's in English. But mine was in Twi. And that also is one of the reasons why people are interested in it. That's what I believe anyway. But I mean , so this brings it up to an interesting point37:31 cause at the same time that you were rapping in Twi, Hiplife was beginning as well, right? Roughly the same time? So there is other Twi rap out there now. Yeah, but then, because I was in Canada and I didn't know many Ghanaians in Canada, I wasn't listening to other artists because I was so into my recordings. I didn't know Reggie Stone 38:05 I didn't know the other rappers, I didn't know anybody. And they didn't know me either. So I'm not listening to anybody. I was not listening to anybody. I didn't know them. Actually I got to know about Reggie Stone. Only I'm talking about I've seen his picture. I haven't met him personally. I haven't met any of the Twi rappers. I haven't met any one of them 38:31 but I saw their pictures on billboards. That's all I can say. So when I was doing it in 92, it was basically my own idea. Yeah no, it also sounds more like .. it doesn't just sound like Twi rap, it sounds like Twi rap recorded in Canada, which it is, I guess. The sound is very different than other rap. 39:07 Yes, I told you that. I thought it was different. So I guess now that you've had some time to let all this settle, what do you think of the record now, does it change the way you think about the music and you think about all that work you did? If I had the opportunity I would still be in music. 39:29 Because I .. as I speak to you now, I have many songs that are still, that I have no way of recording them. If you ask my I'm still in music, I'm still into music. But I have no way of recording them. 39:52 So do you think that if this goes well you might try to record new music? At my age? Ummm, I've thought about it. I don't think I'd be able to do what the young guys are doing now, probably I'd have to hire somebody to sing it or the thing I can do myself is to write40:18 [??] songs because that's what comes with more age but what, the kind of thing that I did in 1992, somehow it come with age, if you are rapping, I don't know how to pull it off. I don't know how they'd take it. But [??] I can do it forever. So I guess really my last question is that 40:47 you were so sad, you were disappointed with this record and then you didn't think about it for a long time but thinking back to it now, does the fact that all these people around the world like it, how has it changed the way you think about it? 41:05 If I have to do it again, I would do it again. If I have to do it, yes, I would do it. I wouldn't mind at all. If I have to record, I would do it. Okay, cool, well thank you so much for talking to me, I really appreciate it. Thank you very much for calling and I apologize for the cut offs and other things, probably next time it would be much better than this so I wish you all the best and thank you very much. Thank you very much. You're welcome.