Afropop Worldwide

Sam Backer: Hi, this is Sam from Afropop Worldwide. Ata Kak: Hello, how you doing? I'm doing well, how are you doing? I'm fine thank you. So where you calling from? New York. Brooklyn. New York, okay. So this is Ata Kak. You know you're talking to Ata Kak. Yeah, I know! [laughs] Yeah, okay, go ahead Sam. Okay, so I guess let's start from the beginning, right? That's a good place to start. How did you first start playing music? I left Ghana for Germany way back in 1985. And while I was in Germany, I was at the post office - in those days we didn't have cell phones, if you can remember, and so we had to communicate by letter. So I went to the post office and while I was there met a German guy, a white guy. He met me and and asked me if I knew anything about music. And actually, I had to lie to him. I don't know why I did. I didn't know anything about music but I told him I could play the drums. And he was so excited about it. And after a week, I went there and I did the best that I could, even though I had not played the professional drums before. But I could do it! And then, after about a month or so, I was playing the drums and we didn't have a lead vocalist so I played as the lead vocalist as well. And then I started writing songs. It was in English, and it was basically reggae music. Then after three years, I left for Canada and I joined a highlife group with some Ghanaians. But after a while I didn't like the kind of music they were playing because I wanted to do my own thing. But when I tried it with them, they didn't understand me so I had an idea of setting up my own recording studio but then this wasn't that easy to do. I started buying some musical instruments and some equipments, like the rhythm machine, and I bought a mixer. So I set up my own recording studio in my apartment in Canada. And then I also put in keyboard but I didn't get anybody to play it for me and after buying all the musical instruments I was short of money. I didn't have enough money to hire people to play it for me. And besides that, I thought I could do it better than any Ghanaian 5:35 because [??] to highlife music. So I tried the best that I could, even though I didn't know what I was playing because I don't know anything like C, you know, on a keyboard, I didn't know C sharp, flat, blah blah blah, okay, I don't know. But I did it anyway. Because I was so eager to do it. I wanted to do it. I was so frustrated, but I knew I could do it. And I did it. With "Obaa Sima", and the rest. So that's the story behind it. So you were playing reggae in Germany and Highlife in Canada, but the music you that you made on this record, it's really, really different. So what made you want to try to make this kind of music, this dance music? Back in Ghana, it was basically highlife and in Germany, like I said, it was the reggae. But I fused or merged them. So if you listen to the songs very well, you realize that I mixed up highlife with reggae, then with dancing music and other stuff. And funk as well. So it's everything together, you know - a piece from here, a piece from there, I join it together, and I had that. Where does that kind of dance beat come from? The dance beat - well, back in the 90s we had dance music. And at that time, it was hip. So I said, 'Okay, that's what I will do.' So because it was a trend at that time, I chose that. So you were trying to mix all these kind of musics you grew up with with the style that was trendy at the time and bring them all together? Yes. So was the goal of the record to like get it out there and get it on the radio and sell records? Were you trying to make this be a popular record? Yes. Yes. So were you trying to aim for the Canadian music scene or in Ghana? Um, I would say the Canadian music really Ghanaians don't play that kind of music. You know, Ghana is basically highlife. Right. So it cannot be Ghanaian music. It was released in '94 and it flopped, honestly. It flopped in Ghana because I think it was something new to them. So it can never be Ghanaian music. No. But there's some music that's a little bit like it. Like Burger Highlife that was being made in Germany is a little bit like this. Yeah, there's Ghanaians who were in Germany back then were playing Burger Highlife, which is quite different from what I did. So it cannot be Burger Highlife. It's quite different. Can you just tell me a little bit about how you wrote the songs? Well, first I wanted to do it in English. Because I was in Canada, you know, I wanted to do it in English. But I started when I rapping, I wasn't rapping as good as the rappers who are doing this. I was influenced by a rapper by the name of - oh come on, I know this guy's name! I think he is known as the father of rap - Grandmaster Flash! Thank you very much. I was influenced by Grandmaster Flash because I remember I was watching TV a long time ago and Grandmaster Flash was singing 'New York New York.' I  hope you know this song. I love this song. I said, "I have to do this." So I wanted to do it in English at first but  after a little bit doing it, I wasn't impressed about what I did. So I said, 'Well, why don't I try it my natural language that I grew up with?' And that's how I did it. So it was in our language, which is Twi, in Ghana. You rap really well.  When did you first start rapping? Way back in 1984. Because after writing a song I said there must be rap in it. So I did it. When I was writing songs, I had the mind to rap in it, and I had never done it before but I said that I could. So I wrote it and I did it. So you started rapping for these songs? I started rapping because I had heard some people rap. Like I told you, Grandmaster Flash was a rapper. He's a rapper. And I heard him on the air. He really spoke out to me How about the beats of the songs, how did you write them? I tried a lot of things. At first it was funk. And then I started with dance music. So while I was singing, because I had my own recording studio and I had all the time to myself, I wasn't in a rush. So it was kind of an experiment. I will first try with funk and if it doesn't work I'll change it to something else. And what worked well for me was the dance music that I did. So I would do all the trial and error, trial and error, and finally that's what I ended up with. So how long did it take you to record. It depends, upon the song and it depends upon the input. With 'Obaa Sima', which was the first one that I recorded, it was a little bit longer. Because I wasn't used to the recording machines, I wasn't used to that. It took me about 3 or 4 months to record that. But with the rest, because I had become used to it, it was easier. So was this just what you were doing at home? What were you doing for a job during this period? Back then I didn't have the papers so it was difficult for me. I did a little bit here and there, a little bit here and there, so you know, any particular job. Because I didn't have a good job, a stable job. And I didn't have a stable income either, but I had to survive anyway. So tell me about that first song, 'Obaa Sima.' Can you just tell me what it's about? I'm married. And when I was doing it I was married and I'm still married to the same woman today. And so it was something I was trying to impress my wife with. Obaa Sima is about about my wife. And if you listen to the lyrics - I know you don't understand the lyrics - I'm telling about what an ideal woman is. And when I was recording it, my wife was there because it was recorded in my apartment. And at that time she was pregnant and it was not that easy, it was difficult, especially when the my friends, these guys, were around. So your wife just went along with it? Like you're in your apartment, you've bought all this equipment? Yeah, she tolerated everything because she knew that something good might come out of it. [laughs] So she tolerated everything. Actually she never complained to me. If she didn't like it, at least she didn't make it known to me. So in my mind, she was okay with it. She hasn't said anything bad about this. So did you have any help in the recording or the building of the studio? No. There was only one guy who helped to sing. And I didn't like his voice, so after I deleted it. [laughs] You have some backing vocals though, right? Yeah, it was a young girl. By the name of [???]. She was really 18:58 [?clever], so I did the backing with her. So were you still playing with your group while you were doing all this recording or had you stopped? I stopped. How come? Because I was so busy with mine. So how long did the whole process take you? It might have taken me about maybe 8 months to maybe 10 months. Less than a year. So did you always know that these were gonna be the songs or were there some songs that didn't make it? How did you know the album was done? I made up my mind that I was making an album because I had written all the songs already. I knew some by heart and I had written it down as well so I knew the number of songs I was making and I knew how I wanted it so that wasn't a problem at all. I'm a little bit confused about that. So you said that you wrote all the songs before you recorded them but you also said that you wrote the raps for the songs. So when you first wrote the songs, what did they sound like? I first write the songs, they are lyrics. And then after the lyrics, I figure out how I put the rap in. And then I write the rap. And then I put it all on the computer and see how it works. So I had everything figured out. Even before I recorded it. I wrote everything on paper before I recorded it. You wrote everything on paper? I wrote everything on paper because that's how I write my songs. I write it on paper and then I compose it. And then the composition is like edited. You take this out, and put this in, whatever. As long as you don't lose the meaning of the song, the message you want to convey. And then when it's all done, I arrange them, 22:17 The [??] then the chorus, then the main bridge, and everything, the rap as well. That's how I do it. And everything is paper. Before I record it. Whoa. And so how did you translate all the writing on paper to the computer? I used a software, a music software. In those days, it was called Notator. So I had a computer. At first, there was something called sync, there's a button there, I press it and it gives me the tempo which goes like, for example "ka ka ka" one two three four, one two three four, and then because I'm a programmer, I was very good at that. And now first, record the kick drum, then the snare drum, then other drums. So I recorded drums section first. All this while with the song in my head. And with the notator software it's divided into four, like one two three four. Then there's a cut. One two three four. So you can join them, join the pieces, so it's like cut and paste, cut and paste. So you do it, it takes a lot of time to do it but you know, when you have this kind of ambition it's easier. So I first record the drum section, and after the drum section I come with the bass line. And while I was programming the bass line, I'd be singing the song in my head to see if it fits. And then when it's recorded and it's playing automatically, I will be singing along to see if it fits, and if it does then I'll move on to something else. So gradually, from one instrument to the other, I recorded everything. And then when it's all done, you are able to elongate it, make it longer, for example, the introduction. One piece lasts for about a second, you add another second to it, add another second to it, then you have three seconds and it's on and on. And it's like that, like you are building up building blocks. That's what it used to be. I don't know about the software these guys are using these days, 'cause I've never tried that before, but with a Notator, that's how it used to be. In '93, '92. So once you had the drum track, did you lay those down on tape and then record the new stuff on top of it? Yeah. Yeah, I send them to25:13 [my friend and his instrument???] because with a , how you call it, a mixer. A mixing board has many tracks and then the regions, they are all assigned a track. For example, I send the kick drum, or the snare drum, to track one. And then I assign the kick drum to track 2, or assign the bass guitar, an then I assign the keyboard or the synthesizer to track 3, and I assign the other instruments to other tracks and then I mix them up and I try to make it sound the way I want it. So of the songs on the album, is there any one that is particularly special to you, that you really love the message of? [laughs] Well, as a matter of fact, I love all of them! But because 'Obaa Sima' was the first one I recorded, if I had to choose one song that would be Obaa Sima. Because I had to spend much more time on that than the rest because it was a new experience to me. So after 'Obaa Sima', I had already known what I needed to know, so it wasn't anything special to me. So I would say 'Obaa Sima' is special to me because it's my maiden song, or maiden recording. So that must been a really special moment when you finished the song and then you go, "This actually works. This is all gonna work." [laughs] I knew it was gonna work. Because you see, you have hope in the sense that you do as a human being. Otherwise you wouldn't try at all. If you knew it's not going to work, why attempt? And I knew it was gonna work because, before I bought the Notator software, I had questions about it and I asked somebody to explain to me. So I knew it was going to work. I was very much optimistic about that. So after you were done with it, what did you do then?   After I recorded all the songs, I played it over and over again. I played it to friends to know their reaction to it, so I was very much impressed with myself. And after that, I was short of money because I had spent all my money.28:33 [??][??]If I had the money. Because I was using used instruments .... I could have paid for a better recording studio to master the tracks but I didn't have that money. That was my only regret. Besides that, I was okay with it. So you've got this album, it's all done, and people like it. What did you try to do next? 29:13 Then, I couldn't sell it in Canada. The reason is I didn't know how to sell it. Because immediately I knew there was a way.[??] I felt as if I had done it. I didn't know how to market it cause first, it wasn't in English. [??] It was a language that I felt connected. [??] So I sent it to my kin brother back in Ghana while I was in Canada. And then I told it to release it here, and try to sell as much as he could. But he couldn't do it. For some reason, they told me people were not interested in the sound. I felt very sad about it, very sorry. After all the hard work that I saw, it crashed, it didn't work. People didn't like it. 30:26 They played in their [?] stations and people just didn't like it. So I forget about it. Until Brian came into my life, thank God! [laughs] Until Brian called me and ooooh my God. That was a resurrection. And that is why I'm talking to you right now. Wait, so he tried to send it to radio stations and stuff in Ghana but they didn't like it? Yeah, they didn't like it. Why? I can't tell. I don't know. So you did all this hard work - did you keep making music after that or did it break your heart a little bit? I told myself I was never gonna do anything in my language anymore but I told myself I was going to do it in English. But then I didn't have money. 'Cause if I had had some money for this, I would have done it in English. Because I was very much tempted to do it in English. But I didn't have the money to do it. And then, just one thing happened and another thing happened and ... And that was the end of it. So tell me about when Brian [Shimkovitz of Awesome Tapes from Africa] called you. What was that conversation like? I had come from Canada, I was in Ghana and I had a call from Brian. When he talked to me for the first time, he was so excited that he had finally managed to get my phone number and he told me that he had been looking for me for about 6 or 8 years. And I said, "For what?! What have I done?" And he said, no, it's about my music. He came to Ghana some time ago in city called32:18 [?] in the center of Ghana. He found my cassette. He bought it. And he liked the sounds. He came back to America and he started playing it and he up his mind to do something about it. But before he could do it, he had to get in touch with me. He had put it on the net and there were some Germans and other people who were also into the music and my son was on Youtube and other places then, which I didn't know. I didn't know. It was Brian who told me this. I thought because it flopped in Ghana, people didn't like it. That was the end. I didn't know that people somehow had managed to buy a cassette and were making money out of that for themselves, without my knowledge. Anyway, so then he told me that while he was still looking for me, he had to come to Canada and ask my friends that were there, and so they told him that I had left the country for Ghana and he met my son who was still in Canada. When I was doing the recording he was newly born, he was about maybe 8 months old while I was doing the recordings way back in 1992. So my son was also on the net. And they met. And my son said, "The guy you're looking for is my father and I'm Jeffrey Ata Ouso. My father's real name is Ata Ouso but his pen name is Ata Kak. And so this is his phone number: call him and you can meet him." So he called me and told me about the story and his willingness to re-market or re-release the songs and I was impressed about that. So what did you think? What was your reaction when you found out that all these people, all over the world, had been listening to your music for years? The first time Brian told me that I'm on net, I said, "No, me on the net? For what?!" And then he said, "You are on the net. Your songs are all over the world. In China, in Japan, in London, in France, in New Zealand." I didn't believe it. I didn't believe it at all. Because how could this be possible? The songs that Ghanaians didn't like, the songs that I had shelved because I thought nobody wanted it, nobody needed it. Anyway, so he told me about that, and I went on the net myself and I believed it. And I said, "Wow, this could be big." [laughs] Yeah, so I told my wife, and I was so excited about it. And I'm still excited about the whole thing. Yep. [laughs] So why do you think it touched such a chord with so many people? I believe that it's because of the rhythm. It's quite different from other rhythms - like I told you, it's a fusion of many rhythms. Besides that, the tempo and my vocal dynamics. For example, basically you often hear rappers rapping in no tone. But I was rapping in a high tone. On 'Obaa Sima' it's very high and it's fast. And people are interested in this because all over the world when you talk about rap, it's in English. But mine was in Twi. And that also is one of the reasons why people are interested in it. That's what I believe anyway. This brings it up to an interesting point, because at the same time that you were rapping in Twi, Hiplife was beginning as well, right? At roughly the same time? So there was other Twi rap out there. Yeah, but then, because I was in Canada and I didn't know many Ghanaians in Canada, I wasn't listening to other artists because I was so into my recordings. I didn't know Reggie Stone. I didn't know the other rappers, I didn't know anybody. And they didn't know me either. So I'm not listening to anybody. I was not listening to anybody. I didn't know them. Actually, I got to know about Reggie Stone, only I'm talking about I've seen his picture. I haven't met him personally. I haven't met any of the Twi rappers but I saw their pictures on billboards. That's all I can say. So when I was doing it in '92, it was basically my own idea. Yeah, it doesn't just sound like Twi rap, it sounds like Twi rap recorded in Canada. The sound is very different than other rap. Yes, I told you that. I thought it was different. So I guess now that you've had some time to let all this settle, what do you think of the record now? Does it change the way you think about the music and all that work you did? If I had the opportunity, I would still be in music. As I speak to you now, I have many songs still, that I have no way of recording. If you ask me, I'm still in music. But I have no way of recording them. So do you think that if this goes well you might try to record new music? At my age? I've thought about it. I don't think I'd be able to do what the young guys are doing now, probably I'd have to hire somebody to sing it. The thing I can do myself is to write songs because that's what comes with more age. But the kind of thing that I did in 1992, somehow with age, if you are rapping, I don't know how to pull it off. I don't know how they'd take it. But writing, I can do it forever. So I'm wondering, you were kind of sad and disappointed with this record, and then you didn't think about it for a long time - thinking back to it now, knowing that all these people around the world like it, has it changed the way you think about it? If I have to do it again, I would do it again. If I have to do it, yes, I would do it. I wouldn't mind at all. If I have to record, I would do it. Okay, cool. Well, thank you so much for talking to me. I really appreciate it. I wish you all the best, and thank you very much.